Stop Marketing to Everyone: Define Your Category and Dominate Your Market | Mark Donnigan | Ep. 163

Mark Donnigan: 00:00:00

I'm in some sort of a selling or a presentation type environment to another business. I'm not talking to like the sign alongside the road. I'm talking to a human and it's human to human.

It's more like P2P or H to H. Human to human, person to person.

Freddy D: 00:00:21

But I am the world's biggest super fan.

Mark Donnigan: 00:00:24

You're like a super fan.

Freddy D: 00:00:26

Welcome to the Business Superfans podcast. We will discuss how establishing business superfans from customers, employees and business partners can elevate your success exponentially.

Learn why these advocates are a key factor to achieving excellence in the world of commerce. This is the Business Superfans podcast with your host, Freddie D. Freddie, Freddie.

Freddy D: 00:01:02

Hey super fans. Superstar Freddy D. Here.

In this episode 163, we're joined by Mark Dunnigan, a virtual CMO and go to market strategist who's helped early and growth stage tech Companies generate over 500 million in combined revenue and enterprise value.

Mark works hands on with founders to build powerful go to marketing engines using innovative frameworks like the Lean Content engine, the Elevate high standards method and a marketing pod model to drive real results, all without bloated teams or wasted spend. He's also the host of the Marketing Execution podcast where he shares practical playbooks for B2B marketers and tech founders.

Navigating today's noisy budget tight environment, Mark brings bold fresh perspectives to the table. Like why small teams be big teams and how AI first marketing can outperform experience.

If you're ready to replace marketing fluff with real traction, Mark's the expert you want in your corner.

Freddy D: 00:02:16

Welcome Mark to the Business Superfans show. Excited to have you on here. What was the pivotal point that that you transitioned into the work that you're doing today?

Mark Donnigan: 00:02:27

It's a little bit interesting. At least I think it is. So when I was 12 years old, I discovered my school's Apple II computer. Apple II that dates me.

We didn't use cool terminology like I'm a developer, I'm a software engineer. Grammar and barely that. I taught myself basic, but my dad actually built silicon for HP in the clean room. He was more the process engineering side.

And so I grew up in a very technical, engineering oriented household. At the same time I enjoyed music, dreamed of being a rock star. Every kid, right?

I go off to computer science University in Colorado, enter the computer science program and after a couple years realize my time playing music, then learning Cobol and Fortran again, dating myself all those fun languages. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Pascal back in the day, I never became incredibly proficient, but I could write code.

So yeah, dropped out and then realized, oh wow, the route of the poor starving musician is not quite so glamorous as they make it look like. And yeah, and I found my way into business, found my way into sale and just really began to grow my career.

That always stayed in technical industries. And just along as my career grew and I advanced at different levels, I began to take on marketing.

And you wake up one day when you're responsible for a big number and you've got 30 or 40, 40 sellers reporting to you and you start saying, what other resources do I have to help my team? And marketing was always one that I had interest in and was sort of always, I would say, dabbling in because it would help us make the number.

And yeah, I began to learn more, become a real student of marketing and understand how messaging and understand how the words that you say actually really matter and they begin to shape the opinion of the market.

So when you're a salesperson and you walk in a room and somebody already has on the tip of their tongue, your positioning, your marketing language, understands who you are, what your value prop is. It doesn't make selling easy, but it certainly makes it easier.

Freddy D: 00:04:48

I can appreciate that.

Mark Donnigan: 00:04:49

Yeah. So that's how I started.

And then about 12 or 15 years back, I took on more responsibility that was more in corporate, you'd almost say corporate strategy. But I always have worked in technology settings. It always had a business development focus to it, usually a marketing component, a strategic.

And all this started coming together. And then as opportunities presented themselves, I found myself working in a very particular area of video technology.

So if you watch Netflix or really any streaming service, which I think probably all your listeners, I would assume have a subscription, then you're actually watching technologies that I have sold into Netflix and then represent even to this day.

Freddy D: 00:05:37

What a story.

We have some similar backgrounds because I started as a engineer and then in drafting and then that's how I got in the computer aided design world initially.

And then I ended up getting a job working for a software developer of CAD Computer Aided Design and was an applications guy teaching people how to go from drafting boards to designing on a computer.

And then same thing, I went through, fortunately six months of high end sales training at the company because you were looking for salespeople and then I never looked back. But like you in a way, I would open up, become a district manager for a company that's out of Detroit and says, okay, because I was in Chicago.

Then we're opening up in the Chicago market. You're the district manager. We have no customers. Here's your sales quota, here's a brochure, and good luck.

And so I had to learn marketing, and I had to learn all that stuff by myself because it's either I did it or I'd be out of a job.

Mark Donnigan: 00:06:32

Yeah. When you look back, I think on.

On our careers, sometimes it's easy to tell this, like, well, you know, I did this, and then this opportunity and then this. It looks like it's all planned, let's face it. At least my experience. I can't speak for years, but I know a lot of people agree when I say this.

In the moment, you're just sort of walking the path and going through the door that opens right in front of you. Right. And it's only when you look back, you're winging it.

But it's that entrepreneurial spirit and drive that in the moment, rather than just saying, hey, I'm head of sales. That's marketing's job.

It's like, in some cases, I had to, because either we didn't really have a formal marketing function, or the marketers just weren't quite doing the things that I felt were needed. So rather than sort of pointing fingers or saying, hey, I'm missing my number because of those guys, I did what I needed to do.

And then that, all of a sudden you find yourself saying, oh, wow, I've got greater control over the market and over my destiny, so to speak.

Freddy D: 00:07:35

Well, you bring up a great point there, Mark.

That I want to emphasize for listeners is that really, marketing and sales need to be really brother and sister holding hands because they're very interconnected. And the sales team has got to be familiar with the marketing message. And the marketing message is going to make sense to the sales team.

And more importantly, the sales team is really the front line. And so they might say, hey, this marketing message is a face plant. It's not getting any traction. People don't get it. They're not resonating with it.

And marketing is going to be able to take that feedback and retweak, readjust and rerun it by and play it out. Because otherwise you got two separate ships going in their own direction, and neither one is going anyplace very fast.

Mark Donnigan: 00:08:17

I've learned to call it a superpower coming out of sales, but is to really not just have empathy for the buyer. I think every salesperson can kind of learn that, to just sort of understand the buyer, and you put yourself in their shoes.

And a good salesperson does that. But to really, truly understand, what is that buyer trying to solve? What is the job to be done? What in air quotes keeps them up at night?

How are their decisions really being made? They say, oh, here's our process. But I can almost guarantee that there's so much nuance to it.

Or in some cases, they may not even really fully understand the process of how a buying decision is made. And the reason why marketers need to have.

So this is why I call it sort of my superpower is if a marketer has walked in the shoes of sales, that doesn't mean they have to. You suddenly decide, hey, I'm gonna spend the next 10 years of my career as a salesperson because it'll make me a better marketer.

Some may choose to do that.

But if they say, I'm gonna spend the next year, 18 months, 24 months, or I'm just always gonna make sure that I get FaceTime with customers, FaceTime with the sales team. I 100% guarantee your marketing will be more effective. It will actually work, or it certainly will work better.

And your sales team will just say, wow, you're our secret weapon. Or not so secret weapon in terms of winning the market.

The marketers who sort of adopt the attitude like, hey, I went and studied marketing in business school because I didn't want to be one of those sales people. They oftentimes struggle because sure, they're stringing together nice phrases.

The words may even roll off the tongue and kind of be cool, but yet the buyers are just going to, we have no idea what you're saying. And therefore it's completely ineffective marketing. Even though on the surface you could say, wow, the website looks beautiful.

Oh, such a cool use of video. Wow, your videos are really cool. Everything can be cool. And yet the buyers are like, I don't even know what you're saying. And they just move on.

So that's one of the things that I found is a little tip for the marketers in the audience. If you haven't had a lot of facetime with customers and with your sales team, make it a point. Prioritize that it will help you.

Freddy D: 00:10:54

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Freddy D: 00:12:17

Sure. Because at the end of the day, everybody's a salesperson. Whether they like it or not. Everybody is always selling in a relationship.

What do we want to have for dinner?

Mark Donnigan: 00:12:28

Okay.

Freddy D: 00:12:29

That's a sales job. You know, what movie are we going to watch that you're selling on? That one. I want to watch this. Why do you want to watch that? I want to watch this.

So people need to really stop and think. You're selling every day of your life. You're in sales. And actually, the best salespeople are children.

If you stop and think about it, because it's, daddy, buy me this and I'll take out the garbage, I'll make my room, all that stuff. And then if you say, well, I don't know, see what mom says. So they put a different sales pitch to Mom.

Mark Donnigan: 00:12:59

That's right. Next thing you know, they're in the kitchen talking to mom.

Freddy D: 00:13:03

Yeah, they don't give up. They repackage and go again.

Mark Donnigan: 00:13:07

They don't give up because we all know the selling statistics. Like, the buyer never says yes the first time. They don't say yes the second time. They don't say yes the third time.

It's like the seventh to the 11th, maybe even a higher number of encounters where then that yes can come. And yet how many salespeople give up at three or four, if they even make it that far.

Freddy D: 00:13:31

But then there's the other part that you can collapse a sales cycle if you've got a super fan and recommends you to somebody. My fastest sale I've said a thousand times already is 30 minutes for $60,000 sale.

And the guy called me up and said, Jack, which is the guy's real name, was the owner of the shop in Illinois. Says, I need to get this stuff.

Freddy D: 00:13:53

How much?

Freddy D: 00:13:54

How fast can you get it here? So we drove out to his place, figuring we need to do a demo and everything else.

Mark Donnigan: 00:13:59

Yeah.

Freddy D: 00:14:00

We started schlepping in the big computer and all this stuff. There was no laptops back then. And the guy goes, I don't need to see any of this stuff. He goes, I want to know what's it going to cost me.

And so my 30 minutes was filling out the order form on my Mac because I had a portable Mac. When I had it all done, I used his fax machine because Max didn't print to anything but a Mac.

Mark Donnigan: 00:14:20

Yeah.

Freddy D: 00:14:21

And so I used a fax machine, I had a modem on my Mac carried to print out the document. He signed it and I used his fax machine to fax it to corporate. And the order was done.

Wasn't even a question on pricing because he needed to get it, he was told.

And that's where super fans come in, is they can collapse a lot of that early hard work that you're talking about six, seven, eight times because you've got social proof that's coming in and saying, you need to deal with my buddy Mark. He's going to hook you up.

Mark Donnigan: 00:14:51

Category design applies to any business.

So if anyone's listening and says, well, hey, I have a local service business, or maybe I have a B2B company, but it's a service business, not in technology or whatever the variation is, category design is still relevant. And category design is related to super fans, which I can give you some insights on.

I would actually argue that without category design, it's a little bit hard to. You will naturally have super fans that develop. Hopefully you will anyway around your brand or around the company or the product.

But it's best if you've so tightly defined your category, that is who you are, who your product is for the problem that your product solves, like your point of view. But then the super fans, when they hear it, they just automatically say, where have you been all my life?

They just like, they don't need any convincing.

They don't need any selling because they have been out there looking, desperately looking, is there anybody who gets me, gets my problem, has a solution for me.

And so category design is really, maybe it's sort of a bridge to going from like, I sell to everybody, which candidly, in my experience, it's a contributor.

I won't say it's the top contributor because every business failure is unique, but it is a contributor to business failure because what ends up happening is that that company goes into the market, attempts to say, we're here for everybody. And everybody says, yeah, but I need this. And then the next everybody says, but I need this other little thing. And then. But I care about this.

And when you say we're here for everybody, you don't have the opportunity to narrow and to be very specific. And so when you do category design, you become very specific. I love the example of Apple and the ipod, since it sounds like you're an Apple fan.

I bought my first Mac plus in: 1988

Freddy D: 00:16:58

I beat you, butter 85.

Mark Donnigan: 00:17:01

So you had the very first Macintosh.

Freddy D: 00:17:04

I wish I would have kept the damn thing.

Mark Donnigan: 00:17:08

Yeah, it's amazing.

Freddy D: 00:17:10

2020.

Mark Donnigan: 00:17:11

Exactly. Yeah. But Steve Jobs, when he held up the ipod and here Apple came out, was introducing it, what was a music player.

But he held this really sleek, white, beautifully molded device with a jog wheel. I mean, everybody's seen one, right? Held it up. And what did he say? He did not say, apple's introducing a new MP3 player.

Now, the reason why this is significant, for those that remember, that's what these things were called. And you would go into Best Buy, you'd go into Radio Shack. Remember Radio Shack? They're long gone now.

But you would go into an electronics store and you would ask for a MP3 player, and they would walk you over, depending on the store, and maybe show you, like, 12 or 15 or 20ft a shelf with, like, every storage, color, variety, size, shape. I mean, it was a big category, right? Steve Jobs held up the ipod and he said, a thousand songs in your pocket. That sounds so simple.

Like, well, okay, but if I pulled any of those MP3 players off the shelf, it always start by saying 128 megs. Or, well, back then, maybe like 32 megs of storage, 16 megs. And oftentimes they would correlate that to the number of MP3s can store whatever.

Some number, right? So you would say, well, but why is that a big deal? Well, it was an incredibly big deal because he did not utter the words MP3 player.

He didn't utter the words music player, at least initially. I'm sure if we went and relist somewhere, he does, I'm assuming, call it a music. But it was a thousand songs in your pocket. Pocket.

And so all of a sudden he's saying, hey, this thing is not MP3 players. No one even knows how many songs they can store. 128 megs, 32 meg. Nobody knows what it means.

But this is Apple's product, you can relate to a thousand. Absolutely. And so what ended up happening within a very short period of time, as in a couple years, Apple owned like 95, 96% of the market.

You remember when Microsoft introduced the Zune? It's Microsoft, by all rights. Very capable player, had all the same features, also had kind of a cool design.

I never thought, I never really liked it, but it was well designed. In other words, like, hey, this should really be a serious competitor. They were like number two in the market.

And I mean, they had like 4 or 5% of the market and Apple had like 90%. And then everybody else were fighting over the other two, 3% that was left.

am proud to say, even before: 1988

But you bring in this whole new group who say, wow, a thousand songs. I really enjoy music.

I hate the fact that I've got to decide before I leave the house which CD I'm going to bring again, going back to when the ipod came out.

So all of a sudden, you build now a new and an expanding fan base that begins to really assimilate with your goods, with your service, with who you are. Yeah.

Freddy D: 00:20:50

And that really resonates into Apple's got superfans of their products. We're both of them of their stuff.

And the way you create super fans, the way I look at is experiences, it's recognizing people, it's expressing gratitude, appreciation. All those components come into play.

Let's go into a little bit Mark, of how you've worked with companies and you've created them into, you know, super fan of your work.

Mark Donnigan: 00:21:16

Yeah.

Freddy D: 00:21:17

And how has that transformed them and how did that impact their business?

Mark Donnigan: 00:21:21

Yeah, oftentimes in the moment, as I observed, it was less of a grand plan and more of just stepping forward with opportunities that presented themselves in a similar way.

I think that the whole concept of whether you call it super fans, whether you call it building community right now in marketing channels, communities are really huge. Even like podcasting, in my personal experience, I found that even though podcast is a great communications medium, I love it.

Obviously, that's why we're here talking, I guess, a lot. I have my own shows, I co host shows It's a very, very important part of what I do.

Kind of who I am, how I represent myself, and what I bring to the companies that I work with. But it's really about just a fundamental belief of when you serve, when you add value, when you are genuinely helpful. People respond to that.

And not everyone who responds is going to be your customer. Not everyone who responds even can be your customer. Not everyone who responds should be your customer.

But it is the best net that I have seen for bringing in leads and for building pipeline, because in that giving the process, you develop the fans, and then the fans are obviously positively correlated to either us as people or to the companies we work for or work with or to products, whatever it is. I've always functioned that way from almost the very beginning of my career, starting in sales, as I said.

And from the conversation you and I had before we hit record, sounds like you work the same way. You would come into a room, you would add value, you would be genuinely helpful, and then quite often a sale would unfold.

So the examples that I have, really, some of them stem out of just making real decisions, if you will, to be incredibly helpful into the market. And the way that I do that in the way that served me really well.

And then hence it's the same strategies I bring to the companies I work with with is sometimes gets lumped into, oh, you're doing thought leadership. In technology marketing, especially B2B, there's this concept of, like, putting out white papers and almost like showing the market how smart we are.

It's like, I'm the smartest kid on the block. No, that's. Nobody really cares. In fact, people, they get annoyed of hearing someone just like we do in real life.

It's like, okay, fine, fine, like, we've heard enough. We know you're smart. Like, you don't need to keep telling us.

It's not about doing, like, thought leadership, but it's about genuinely contributing to the conversations that are happening in the market at that time where buyers are saying, hey, there's this inflection point, there's this new technology. Hey, there's this thing called AI. We're really seriously trying to make sense of it it.

And everybody and their brother and sister is claiming they've got the latest, coolest tool and solution and product, but we're having a hard time making sense of it.

And so my strategies always orient and where I've had the highest success, not only in marketing that's really connected and has driven the business, but just in raising my Personal profile. Raising the profile of companies that I do work for, that I work with, I advise is to focus on. On helping that buyer in their buying process.

And this isn't like a cursory word help. Like, everybody says, I'm here to help. Like, okay, it's sort of like, I'm from the government, I'm here to help, or however that's saying it.

Everybody kind of laughs like, thanks, but don't thanks. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. I'm not sure if I want your help, but it's really genuinely saying, hey, there's something happening in our market.

My customer has real sincere questions or even concerns, maybe even worries around whether it's their buying decision, whether it's what this trend means for them. Again, I just encourage the listeners as you're listening to me talk, this sounds very ethereal and kind of soft. Try and put yourself in your market.

And it's probably not too hard to think of just one thing. Maybe it's news. Maybe there's some set of news about the economy.

Maybe you're doing something that's really highly tied to kind of consumer sentiment. If we want to get really super practical, how would you help educate your buyer, your consumer, your potential customer?

Freddy D: 00:26:19

You bring up a tactic that I used, and it worked very well. And that's why I wanted to interject in there, is that I would do lunch and learns.

Mark Donnigan: 00:26:27

Yeah.

Freddy D: 00:26:28

And so I was selling to the tool and die mold maker shop. So I would send out letters back in the day because email didn't exist.

buy a directory and sic code: 3544

Mark Donnigan: 00:26:45

That's back when you actually really could buy lists. They were legit.

Freddy D: 00:26:48

Right. That's The Vice President, VP of Marketing, VP of Engineering. My target market, 300 in this state, 200 in that state.

We would mail out letters, and basically the letter was, come in for lunch and learn. Cost you nothing. And to teach you about how the technology is changing in the engineering, manufacturing space.

And we would use our software to demonstrate it, but we weren't selling our software.

Mark Donnigan: 00:27:11

Yeah.

Freddy D: 00:27:12

We would talk about how it's doing and we would show examples. Or else. And then these guys would say, would you mind coming to our facility and take a look?

And how this could potentially be applicable to our place. It's like inviting the wolf into the hen house because you just invited me in and I'd walk out in order.

Mark Donnigan: 00:27:31

Yeah.

Freddy D: 00:27:32

I really want to emphasize what you're talking about. There Mark. Because it works. It still works today.

Mark Donnigan: 00:27:37

It still works today.

ners who are like, that is so: 1995

Just like I heard a strategy not too long ago. Of course, I listened to a lot of podcasts and I listened to a lot of marketing oriented, business oriented podcasts.

And there was an agency owner, a digital marketing agency owner that is marketing by sending handwritten letters to business owners. Now let that sink in. Yeah, but isn't it ironic?

His service is digital marketing and yet his most effective way to get in front of the decision maker is with a handwritten letter. And again, they send gift baskets too.

Freddy D: 00:28:34

Let's expand that, because I talk about this, because I still use that approach. But the reality is there's laws that you can't spam email. Right? But there is no law that says you can't spam the mailbox.

And who makes money off of spamming the mailbox? Let's think about that for a long time. Our friends at the postal service.

Mark Donnigan: 00:28:55

That's right.

Freddy D: 00:28:56

So it's kind of funny how all that stuff plays out, but at the end of the day, you're absolutely correct. Because email, you don't recognize the person. You don't know who it is. Delete or I'll get to it later. Two hours later. But comes in the mail.

I just got somebody sent me a half a birthday card.

Mark Donnigan: 00:29:11

Yeah.

Freddy D: 00:29:12

It's like, huh, okay. And it's on my desk.

Freddy D: 00:29:14

There you go.

Freddy D: 00:29:14

That's exactly.

Mark Donnigan: 00:29:16

And. And you're probably half like, well, I should probably just throw this away.

But no, maybe I should keep it and see, like, what else is going to show up.

Freddy D: 00:29:23

It works old school work for our listeners. You want to really change the game on your competition, incorporate a little bit. Old school.

Mark Donnigan: 00:29:31

Yeah. So getting back though, I love that we're talking about the tactics, but then, okay, so now you do a lunch and learn.

And now you've got 10, 12, 15, 20, 25 people in a back room of a local restaurant or something, or a meeting room at a hotel or whatever. The venue doesn't really matter. Okay, but now what are you doing there? And what you're not doing is a sales pitch.

The whole thing will just crash and burn in flames f faster than you can count to Five. If kind of within the first five minutes. Like well, so hey, I want to tell you about.

It's like no, instead by bringing that education, by bringing, delivering on whatever got them in the room because obviously they're. Most people are very busy. So they didn't just, you know, oh, I need a free lunch, I'll just come and put up with this guy for an hour.

So they got there for a reason.

So over deliver on that and then what ends up happening is that time and time again either at the same moment that prospect, if you want to refer to them that way, is sitting there being educated. They're thinking we really need to do something about this today.

So then guess what, they're probably going to come up afterwards say, hey Mark, I know the purpose wasn't but I actually would like to get some time with you. I would like to learn about your product or I would like to learn what you can do for us or whatever. Great.

Freddy D: 00:30:53

Bingo.

Mark Donnigan: 00:30:53

Awesome. But if that doesn't happen, that doesn't mean that it's over. It doesn't mean that time was wasted.

They're going to go back, they're going to maybe tell another colleague. They're going to tell maybe someone they used to work with who's now at a different company.

And you do this long enough and your phone will always be ringing. It really will. It'll just always be ringing.

Freddy D: 00:31:17

That's why I got the plaques for being top sales guy because those were the approaches that I used. I'd follow up. Thank you so much Mark for your time to attend our meeting. Blah.

Bl you know, love to continue the conversation and let me know what's a good day. So I put it on them to reach back out to me.

And some people would reach out back to me or I'd follow up and says, hey, have you had time to think about it? Would you guys like to learn a little bit more?

Mark Donnigan: 00:31:42

Yeah.

Freddy D: 00:31:43

But it's. You got a chance in a very cost effectively to attract prospective customers.

And the worst that happens is you've educated somebody and it may not be for them, but if you handled it professionally just like you said, they may know somebody else that could benefit and they could pass your name on to somebody else because I've had that happen where it wasn't for them, but they knew somebody and then I ended up getting a deal through them because they became a super fan of me because I was transparent, says Mark. This isn't going to work work for you, but I know somebody else that could utilize or can provide you with the technology you're looking for.

Mark Donnigan: 00:32:29

Yeah.

Freddy D: 00:32:30

And they'd be appreciative because I'm really caring about helping them.

Mark Donnigan: 00:32:35

Yeah.

Freddy D: 00:32:35

And that was like you were talking before, really looking into the challenges that the company's dealing with.

And so I would get into with the owners of talking about what's their growth strategy three years from now, five years from now, what are the challenges that they're experiencing right now that's holding them back. So I'd have a business conversation.

Mark Donnigan: 00:32:55

Yeah.

Freddy D: 00:32:56

And then my widget, which is a software platform, was just a tool that may or may not help them get to that goal. But if I understood that goal, it changes the whole conversation.

Mark Donnigan: 00:33:06

I even use the term B2B. Everyone understands. Like if you're talking about business model or whatever you say B2B, everybody understands. And I still use that.

But in some ways I hate it because it's like when I go out and I'm in some sort of a selling or a presentation type environment to another business, I'm not talking to like the sign alongside the road. I'm talking to a human. And it's human to human. It's more like P2P or H2H. Human to human, person to person.

And by the way, that person sitting on the other side of the table doesn't turn off all their logic and their emotions and suddenly change who they are. They were out on a Saturday with their wife or their husband, shopping for a car or doing whatever they were doing, going through the norm.

When they show up on Monday morning, they don't suddenly go, okay, now this is a business purchase. So now I'm gonna shut this, I'm shut off all emotion. I'm just gonna be logical. No, it's like, hey, I really like Freddy. He's a nice guy.

I feel like he's going to take good care of us.

Freddy D: 00:34:14

Well, sure. Sir Richard Branson says it the best. And that's there is no difference between work and personal time. It's called life.

Mark Donnigan: 00:34:21

Yeah, you're living, I think, that exact quote or some paraphrase of it. And I subscribe to that a hundred percent.

And so the more that we in a business context understand this and come to terms with it, and then adapt the way that whether we sell, whether it's how we market, whether it's how we run our business, wherever we are in our respective organizations, the more effective we're going to be when all of a sudden you wake up and you go, wow, this is actually more fun and I'm being more successful. What did I change? Well, really just became more human at.

Freddy D: 00:34:57

The end of the day. Yeah. People buy from people that they like and trust and they buy emotionally and justify logically.

Mark Donnigan: 00:35:05

That's right. Hundred percent hasn't changed.

Freddy D: 00:35:08

Mark, as we kind of come to the end here, great conversation. How can people find you?

Mark Donnigan: 00:35:11

If anybody wants to learn more about marketing, I have a lot of materials on my website. It's growth stage, dot marketing, but it's growth stage. I'm sure you'll link up to it.

But growthstage marketing, everything's free and there's no forms to fill out or anything.

Just I encourage you to look around if you're trying to get a little bit of an edge or want to learn more about technology, marketing or marketing and general. I think you'll appreciate the website. I'm super easy to find.

Freddy D: 00:35:42

All right, we'll make sure that's all into the show Notes and Mark, great conversation. Thanks so much and we definitely would love to have you on the show down the road again.

Mark Donnigan: 00:35:50

Sounds good. Thank you.

Freddy D: 00:35:53

What a powerful conversation with Mark Donegan. His message really drives home a truth every service based business owner needs to hear.

That when you serve first, when you focus on genuine helping and educating your market, the right clients will naturally find their way to you. Mark reminded us that real growth doesn't come from bigger teams or flashier tactics.

Freddy D: 00:36:19

It comes from clarity, category design and.

Freddy D: 00:36:22

A human to human connection. That's how you attract not just customers, but believers. The kind who become your superfans.

If this episode brought you value, leave a quick 5 star review. It helps other service based business owners discover the show. Thanks for listening Today.

By showing up, you've already proven that you care about growth, impact and building business Superfans. I'm honored to be on this path with you. Remember, one action, one stakeholder, one super fan closer.

Freddy D: 00:36:58

We hope you took away some useful knowledge from today's episode of the Business Superfans podcast. The path to success relies on taking action. So go over to businesssuperfans.com and get your hands on the book.

If you haven't already, join the accelerator community and take that first step in generating a team of passionate supporters for your business. Join us on the next episode as we continue guiding you on your journey to achieve flourishing success in business.